We hear it again and again, the gospel of technological salvation. First, there was the promise of social media and other digital platforms (Amazon, Google, etc.) that became ingrained in our daily lives—but then devolved into what is widely acknowledged as much poorer-quality service and user experience. Now, it’s AI that’s supposed to save humanity and maybe even deliver the holy grail of immortality. But what is real and what is rhetoric, and who benefits from all the hype and fanfare? Cory Doctorow (Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What To Do About It) discusses with Adam Becker (More Everything Forever: AI Overlords, Space Empires, and Silicon Valley’s Crusade To Control the Fate of Humanity). Moderated by host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour Manoush Zomorodi.